Comments:Import Wizard

mre's comments ont the first import concept

i totally forgot those two mentioned needs while discussing this topic. sorry, for missing that.

the first concept totally ignores the needs for pasting text into a buffer.
the card sorting example would be great to cover, too. pasting html

somehow it needs possibilites to adjust the buffer reader or we stick to p's and b's

Malte 07-Feb-2009 17:44 GMT

x28de's feedback to "First Import Concept"

Thanks for the progress!

"the user can get an overview about which topics would be created and if the fields of the "Goaltype" are displaying the content fields correctly": All columns (fields) are typically displayed by such wizards, but not necessarily all rows (topics), in case this is relevant for design or performance. "Goal" or "target", whichever is more common.

Process reverted: The most important part is to revert if anything goes wrong and the input is somehow interrupted. So the objective is probably to define a synch point. No idea if this is feasible without relying on a more general "undo" ability.
Column names: Typically, import wizards offer a checkbox saying "first row contains field names". For DeepaMehta property names, it is improbable that user provided them. Guessing the right unnamed columns, is the main task of this step. Particularly as long as CSV is initially reduced to TSV, what remains is only delimiters and skipped columns, and perhaps concatenating columns.
- Ok, first row contain fields would be taken for granted. I also have to study a bit CSV, i guess. So within a first solution, the user would create a TopicType which has it's properties named like the field names within the first row of his data or let dm create a TopicType according to the field names of the first row. I see, here is space for more exchange on that. Malte
"The Report will be displayed in the Property": Is this narrow vertical pane really appropriate for a Wysiwyg wizard where the major work is determining horizontal segmentation ? Why nor a simple pop-up dialogue ?
Concluding remark. I hope all these DeepaMehta operations (such as right-click > create report) can be hidden from the user in some batch processing step. Unless the wizards offers simple "Next" > "Next". the user will probably prefer to just try.
- Regarding your last two remarks. Later on for sure. May be also during the first try but we cannot promise that. Malte

x28de 07-Feb-2009 18:14 GMT

your motivation sounds great! you obviously did us a great favor with contributing this page!

some thoughts, to give it a try:

the import could be handled within an ordinary topic map. a document topic for choosing the import file could be created and deliver in it's first steps following functioniality for the user.

1) the import topic would deliver a context command, if a file property is set, to read the column's headers

2) create as many new topics as headers are in the csv and associate them with the origin import topic

3) and as described already from x28, simple custom edges would allow the user for typing the associations between the "Header Topics"and the "Import Topic" (alike "visual one", "visual two" and "verbal" which have each it's visualization properties)

4) after adjusted the import structure, another context command could be enabled which creates a new topic map out of the data to import. (therefore the data file has to be uploaded up to the serverside and if it's there all entries could be processed)

5) triggering this command again could follow the rules of the deepamehta topic map import and overwrite already imported topics

I think truncating the topic label or use a second one, is already possible for every custom implementation topic.

I would love to see us exchanging about this further on! So maybe this enables us, to make this topic even more concrete within the next few weeks. I'll try to help!

Malte 13-Jan-2009 19:28 GMT

Sorry I don't know enough about the internal logic to understand these implementation details. But I think I don't need to understand them because I only want to be an end user for the new functionality. x28de 13-Jan-2009 22:45 GMT

allet klar, weiß ich bescheid. maybe someone else finds the time to prepare some implementation details with me. i tried to describe the most simple solution i could imagine from the developers perspective, i just don't know if this way would be that easy or if there is a simpler and better solution with less costs

Malte 14-Jan-2009 00:53 GMT

Between step 3 and 4, is there a robust opportunity for negotiating back and forth like the known wizards do ? (User specifies something, the interface shows some preview, then the users changes their mind and re-specifies, until s/he is content?) I think there should be a solid basis for later enhancements.
- this would provide a basis for arbitrary mappings but i am not quite sure if the user interface (visual guidance) proposed, will be a sufficient solution in it's first throw, especcially for users with fresh hands on deepamehta. we may introduce an intermediate step between 3) and 4), 3.b) so the user would be enabled to create one or two preview-topics of how the data is mapped into this type's structure, re-adjust it, preview it again and finally import the whole data. --Malte 18-Jan-2009 15:42 GMT
  - Sorry I may have been unclear about "preview". See below Wizard appearance. x28de 18-Jan-2009 20:05 GMT

Eventually, the user will want to directly paste their list into some buffer to let DeepaMehta take care of it.

providing a buffer is a good thought :) --Malte 18-Jan-2009 15:42 GMT

I cannot estimate how cumbersome the implementation of the various intermediate topic creations is, and they definitely should be hidden from the user who is focussing on their content. x28de 15-Jan-2009 22:47 GMT

creating intermediate topics right in the map which are associated with the import topic and visible to the user, would enable the user to watch and foresee what happens next. this would be possible with moderate efforts, but i can not be sure if this let the user focus on it's content, even if i think it would do so. --Malte 18-Jan-2009 15:42 GMT
- Regarding "foresee", see more about Preview below. x28de 18-Jan-2009 20:05 GMT

addendum

the procedure to "analyze data", "preview", "adjust mapping" and "create topic map/import now" would be in a semi-guided consecution (just as well we could name this commands "step back, next and finally import now"). the user would be able to proceed if he checks the context menu of the import topic again.

a.f.a.i.k.: to provide some kind of dialog, known to users from other applications, was not thought of within the current implementation of the thin-client. e.g. to display in place help messages for each step, what is possible now, is restricted to the hidden messaging panel. also i am not sure about the need, in a first throw, to roll back a complete import (of all topics and types) --Malte 18-Jan-2009 15:42 GMT

Wizard appearance and preview

For "preview", I did not imagine a visual preview on the map. Just a few rows of data, with bars indicating the foreseen column borders (or put more simply: just as MS Access does it -- I hope this is not a taboo).

And hence, "Back" would not mean a complete roll back of already imported items.

However, there might be a need for complete roll-back as long a a general "undo" is not available, in case something goes awfully wrong and the user wants to get rid of the garbage in their CM. Another alternative would be to support sort-of "one map" instances of DeepaMehta that could completely deleted if a lot went wrong. I am doing this for quite a while now: just creat completely new folders from the installation zip file and start over. If the focus is on a single visualization rather than on a accumulating knowledge repository, the idea is not absurd to regard each map as a self-contained item like a powerpoint file for a single slide. But it is a waste of apace and not very comfortable. 20:17 GMT

The commands like "Next" should not appear as right-click menu items. In a wizard, they would have to appear on buttons, with "Next" highlighted as the suggested action.

I would agree that things "known to users from other applications, was not thought of" if things within DeepaMehta are concerned. But at the import stage, people must not be expected to put off their pre-paradigm-shifted expectations. Otherwise we would run into a chicken and egg problem, that people never migrate their stuff into DM. x28de 18-Jan-2009 20:05 GMT

ok, i think that we don't have any taboos regarding a user friendly wizard :) i have to correct myself, there are dialogs like the filechooser possible which return a result, so the current client implementation has thought of making these dialogs possible. i am just not so familiar with them (see dev questions for more). regarding another area of our interface we could think about the properties of an import topic and the already available visualizatipon modes, except the file. Malte 22-Jan-2009 17:58 GMT

mre's questions about developing

3) Can this also be realised within the map in meanings of using the jinternal frame from the double click help or image dialog? Instead of using a popup like the File or ColorChooser?

4) is it currently possible to visually distinct in the property panel through hiding and showing 'dm-visualizations' regarding to a state of a topic?

Malte 22-Jan-2009 17:58 GMT